Hello, my concern is about "exploiting" in Flame Leviathan and Heroic Flame Leviathan of Ulduar.
Few days ago (tuesday 16th of June) our small casual friend based guilds raid group for FL got banned for "Intented Exploiting" (a term used by Blizzard employee for our activity).
Since our guild does not consist 10 active members our only pve raid target have been Flame Leviathan.
If you know the fight of Flame Leviathan I want to know your opinion and your explonation if you think the following is exploiting.
---
Tactic posted on MMO-champion website june 14, 2009, 10:44:07 AM. Link: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=64594.0
The tactic pictured by my (bad) paint-skills: http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3274/srslywtf.jpg
Vehicles that was used on fight:
2 demolishers with 2 drivers and 2 anti-air personnel.
1 bike (extra player)
Since vehicles scale with item level, our guild has pretty nice requirements for this - we do lots of pvp, pvp items got high item levels too.
Step to step tactic:
1. Fight begins by kiting Flame Leviathan to one corner, either which demolisher got the aggro first
2. Anti-air personnels begins to shoot flying pyrite boxes from air and gather then during ALL time
3. Leviathan is kited by the path shown in screenshot
3.1 I'm pretty sure everyone here is familiar with The Pythagorean theorem (a^2 + b^2 = c^2) and everone can say c>a and c>b. There is the logic behind this kiting path.
4. Demolishers are constantly spamming pyrite barrel (number 2 keybind) which can be done by good pyrite gathering of anti-air personnels
5. When aggro chances demolisher begins to "packpedall" the tank back to his corner. The other demolisher that doesn't have aggro will follow Flame Leviathan in order to pick up more pyrite that have been dropped.
---
The kill lead to 72hour ban on most of us, but a good friend of mine got permanently banned.
I feel really bad for my friend who got banned, I can assure you than none of us knew that it was exploiting.
Nevertheless all of us got banned becouse of "Intented Exploiting" without any warning.
I really don't see the justice in this. I've done this in full 25man raid before in my old guild and we did it pretty much the same - except playing it really - really stupidly compared to this tactic.
---
After speaking to a gm he also said that Flame Leviathan is 10/25 man boss and when it's done by lesser players its considered as exploiting. Seriously there's even achievement to clear ulduar less than full raid!
Here's the conversation link with a GM. His name is sencored, I think name&shame rights goes for gms too.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1132/conversationwithagm.jpg
And yes, we've sent a complain about this to the webform gave in email. No reply so far and propably keeps us waiting for another week or something.
"That is not really kiting Crescendoll, making him run between point A and B and never getting near a player was seen as exploiting here." -GM
What the **** are we suppose to do, ram into FL and let our vehicles get destroyed?
Before we got FL down, it actually got really really close (I think it hit my friends demo once or twice).
---
So our guild cannot do 10m or 25m version of Flame Leviathan without having a full raid?
And what was the exploiting, kiting?
Regards, Offensive/Deviant/Crescendoll of Trollbane
Sorry for my grammar, eng is my 3rd language.
EDIT:
We did not attack the turrets above FL and we did not interrupt Flame Vents in any way. Both of our demolisher handlers (me other, you can check gear itemlvl) had over 1million hp (something like 1060k).
Few days ago (tuesday 16th of June) our small casual friend based guilds raid group for FL got banned for "Intented Exploiting" (a term used by Blizzard employee for our activity).
Since our guild does not consist 10 active members our only pve raid target have been Flame Leviathan.
If you know the fight of Flame Leviathan I want to know your opinion and your explonation if you think the following is exploiting.
---
Tactic posted on MMO-champion website june 14, 2009, 10:44:07 AM. Link: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=64594.0
The tactic pictured by my (bad) paint-skills: http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3274/srslywtf.jpg
Vehicles that was used on fight:
2 demolishers with 2 drivers and 2 anti-air personnel.
1 bike (extra player)
Since vehicles scale with item level, our guild has pretty nice requirements for this - we do lots of pvp, pvp items got high item levels too.
Step to step tactic:
1. Fight begins by kiting Flame Leviathan to one corner, either which demolisher got the aggro first
2. Anti-air personnels begins to shoot flying pyrite boxes from air and gather then during ALL time
3. Leviathan is kited by the path shown in screenshot
3.1 I'm pretty sure everyone here is familiar with The Pythagorean theorem (a^2 + b^2 = c^2) and everone can say c>a and c>b. There is the logic behind this kiting path.
4. Demolishers are constantly spamming pyrite barrel (number 2 keybind) which can be done by good pyrite gathering of anti-air personnels
5. When aggro chances demolisher begins to "packpedall" the tank back to his corner. The other demolisher that doesn't have aggro will follow Flame Leviathan in order to pick up more pyrite that have been dropped.
---
The kill lead to 72hour ban on most of us, but a good friend of mine got permanently banned.
I feel really bad for my friend who got banned, I can assure you than none of us knew that it was exploiting.
Nevertheless all of us got banned becouse of "Intented Exploiting" without any warning.
I really don't see the justice in this. I've done this in full 25man raid before in my old guild and we did it pretty much the same - except playing it really - really stupidly compared to this tactic.
---
After speaking to a gm he also said that Flame Leviathan is 10/25 man boss and when it's done by lesser players its considered as exploiting. Seriously there's even achievement to clear ulduar less than full raid!
Here's the conversation link with a GM. His name is sencored, I think name&shame rights goes for gms too.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1132/conversationwithagm.jpg
And yes, we've sent a complain about this to the webform gave in email. No reply so far and propably keeps us waiting for another week or something.
"That is not really kiting Crescendoll, making him run between point A and B and never getting near a player was seen as exploiting here." -GM
What the **** are we suppose to do, ram into FL and let our vehicles get destroyed?
Before we got FL down, it actually got really really close (I think it hit my friends demo once or twice).
---
So our guild cannot do 10m or 25m version of Flame Leviathan without having a full raid?
And what was the exploiting, kiting?
Regards, Offensive/Deviant/Crescendoll of Trollbane
Sorry for my grammar, eng is my 3rd language.
EDIT:
We did not attack the turrets above FL and we did not interrupt Flame Vents in any way. Both of our demolisher handlers (me other, you can check gear itemlvl) had over 1million hp (something like 1060k).
[ Post edited by Offensive ]
Although it will likely be taken down soon by blizzard
I can see where it is an exploit. The exploit is said to be that if you only have 2 vehicles you know which is the next target and you can prepare.
ReplyDeleteHowever every exploit is something that is fail by blizzard. They were too stupid to see the "exploit" and without making clear what the rules for exploiting are are banning people.
I think you should never blame people for your own stupidity. The GM's shirt that upon use killed everything in 30 yards range that was sent to a player by mistake was in my opinion the players right to use the shirt. Hell I would have, knowing that it must have been a mistake obviously.
Though for this instance... If you start out with 4 vehicles, and 2 get destroyed. You have 2 vehicles left. That is the same as doing it with 2 vehicles from the beginning.
This means in my opinion they ARE doing the intended tactic. Just not the intended tactic from the start. You should at least bring a few guys who have to die first before you are allowed to do this tactic.
Sorry about your friends getting banned man.
ReplyDeleteThat's some serious bullshit. Seriously stupid.
ReplyDeleteThat's really dumb. What's the difference between having two siege engines/demolishers in 2 corners and having 6 siege engines/demolishers in those same 2 corners? As for the kiting issue the GM is talking about, isn't that EXACTLY what we're supposed to do for this encounter? Stay the hell away from FL?
ReplyDeleteIt makes me want to try this strategy in a full 10 man raid maxing on bikes and letting FL run a diagonal back and forth.
@ calil
ReplyDeletethese are not people I know I just love documenting blizzards stupidity
@ anon
There is a very big difference. When you have 2 demos it will ALWAYS go between them. If you have a b c in one corner and d e f in the other. It starts on A in that corner and goes lenthwise across the room to d. It then goes to e next and stays on that side instead of going back across the entire room. In fact I would go so far as to say that doing it with 2 vehicles is sooo much easier than doing it with 3, 4, 5 etc
Sounds like a perfect definition of an exploit to me. All this ganging up that players do on blizzard is pretty ridiculous, considering how the players who do it the most are the most hopeless addicted/love the game the most. Gutter trash players should be banned.
ReplyDeleteWow..... how utterly ridiculous. People always try to find interesting ways to beat encounters while stacking the deck against themselves, and this is no different.
ReplyDeleteShame on Blizzard.
Wow that sucks man! Can't believe Blizzard would stoop that low.
ReplyDelete@anonymous calling people gutter trash. You obviously don't play much to understand the crap Blizz throws out daily. What you said seems to be out of ignorance. Sometimes it's best to shut up.